PODCAST SHOWNOTES

Nicole Otchy: Welcome back to the show. Today I'm chatting with my client, Abbey Page, a menswear stylist in Austin, who went from building her business on the side to quitting her corporate job and going all in. But once she was full time, Abbey realized that having the talent and clients was one thing, building a sustainable business was another. Today, we're going to talk about how she sharpened her offers, transformed her approach to sales and found a way to market her business, without forcing herself into the content creator hamster wheel, a frustration I know many of you can relate to. Plus, we're going to get into what it's really like to work with male styling clients and why this market might be more ripe for deeper identity-level styling work than many stylists think. I'm so excited for you to hear Abbey's story.

Let's get into it. This is The Six Figure Personal Stylist Podcast. I'm Nicole Otchy and this is a show for personal stylists building world-class businesses and setting the standards in their industry. We're talking all things profitable growth, thought leadership and real client transformations. Because the best stylists don't just edit closets, they shape culture.

Nicole Otchy: Thank you for being here with me today, Abbey.

Abbey Page: Happy to be here.

Nicole Otchy: We'll start this off like we do all of my interviews with clients. Tell us a little bit about how you got into the world of personal styling.

Abbey Page: So I was in the corporate world for 10 plus years and just knew that that wasn't what I was wanting to do for the rest of my life. And I've always loved clothes. I've always loved fashion, and been very drawn to it. And it really kind of took me a long time to understand why. So while I was working, I was working for Expedia, the travel platform and just kind of started thinking a little bit more about some like side hustles or side gigs I could start. And again, going back to my love for fashion, love for clothes, like if you saw into my brain, it's terrifying up there. It's just like, always think, I'm like always like styling people or like restyling, like I'm just, they're always there in my brain. And I always had friends come to me and ask for my advice. And pretty much all growing up, I kind of just had this label of being good at style or fashion, whatever. Started with a free client. The reason I went into men was, because I saw a pretty big gap in the market. I saw a big gap in resources. I also had a lot of friends and like just going on dates myself at the time, just kind of saw like a big gap. So I kind of took my love for clothing and I also love people. I've always done sales. I studied sociology in college and just kind of blended the two.

Nicole Otchy: So you work with men and had you been styling a lot of men, or was it just your own, like was it your like research on the market that made you think that? Or did you have a lot of men that you saw that were friends, or you really had a lot of bad dates with outfits? What? Because you could see a gap in the market and think that's not for me. What was it that drew you to it?

Abbey Page: Yes, like dates, I think even just like scrolling this is like so dumb, but like scrolling on Hinge I was like…

Nicole Otchy: Oh interesting.

Abbey Page: … oh my God, so many of these men, I was just like, it's just like no, no, no, no, just the way they were presenting themselves, it was just like, I couldn't believe it. And I know that sounds harsh, but like, I don't know, it was that and then, yeah, like friends. Like I had a friend go on a date and she was like I showed up to the date I was dressed really nice, I look great and he showed up in chacos and jeans,like on a first date. And it just… it like, it was a just a clear mismatch. And I had heard so many stories from my friends who were going on dates and I had my own experiences, going on dates. I think that's really when my brain kind of started to like pick up on that.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah.

Abbey Page: And then I started doing my own research, digging into it and just saw this big gap.

Nicole Otchy: So you decided after all of these bad outfits that we saw on Hinge, which I think, this is great content, just as a side note, that the men needed some help.

Abbey Page: Yes.

Nicole Otchy: And did you start out initially working with men or did you open a business to help a lot of people and then you narrowed it down? Or did the business launch as styling men?

Abbey Page: It launched as styling men. I took on a friend of a friend. She was like, Oh, I have a friend you could style for free. And that was like my first test client. But yeah, I never like, I don't know, women, working with women intimidated me to be completely transparent.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah.

Abbey Page: It just seemed a lot, like a lot more going on. Like you've got dresses, skirts, shirts, like all the accessories. Like I was just like, it was like a lot of overwhelm and then not even getting into like the identity and the psychology part of it. I think it's so different for women.

Nicole Otchy: It is.

Abbey Page: Yeah, I just took on a free friend of a friend and he was… I kind of built all of my systems and everything out with him.

Nicole Otchy: Wow. So how long have you been in business as of right now?

Abbey Page: Oh, let's see. I started last April, so a little over a year.

Nicole Otchy: And I remember you and I texted on Instagram, because you quit your job.

Abbey Page: Yep.

Nicole Otchy: And you announced you're going full time. And that was in…

Abbey Page: January, February.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. And you were up and running pretty. You were like full on full bore. What was that transition like to full time? Like what did I feel like to be like, all right, that's it. I'm out. I am really doing this for real.

Abbey Page: It was really exciting. I had been planning it earlier than that, probably six or so months before that. I was like, OK, I'm giving myself a quit date, because I knew that if I didn't, I just would never leave. I was like, I know that if I want to make my standing business work, I have to be both feet in. So I gave myself a quit date. I told my fiance, I was like, I'm quitting on this date. Like, you know, let's sign a contract, like hold me accountable to that. And yeah, I saved up my money, I planned for it and it was really scary and also very exhilarating at the same time. I was really excited, because I was like, I have all the time in the world now to work on my business and be both feet in. I just, I don't know, this inherent trust that it would only be up from there.

Nicole Otchy: And it really has been. So you had a good amount of experience when you came to me, because you had obviously been styling on the side and then had gone full-time. So I don't think you came into Accelerator only like a month from quitting your job. You went from like, yeah. And so the business was older than a month, but you were only full-time for a month, or a month and a half maybe. What were the things you were really looking to get a hold on, now that you were full-time and really just iron out?

Abbey Page: Going from corporate to doing your own thing is, it is night and day difference. And I really did not understand how challenging it was going to be. I don't know, naive little me, I was like, oh, I can skip all the hard stuff. Everybody talks about how hard it is. That's not going to be me. And when I came to you, I was just like, holy shit, I can't do this on my own. I really thought I could. And I was just like, I've got the internet, AI resources, like YouTube, whatever. I'm like, I can figure it out. But in my head, I was just like, OK, yes, sure, I can DIY it for, I don't know, months. But the time it was going to take me to DIY everything, I just kind of started to realize that's going to push me back further and further and it's going to be harder. Why not work with somebody that has been in my shoes and actually paved a pass and like knows how to do it.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah.

Abbey Page: And I was like initially before like I was nervous to to pay for, you know, your services, your coaching, because I just quit my job, you know, I wasn't financially stable with my business. But it has seriously been one of the best decisions I've ever made, truly, like and it has saved me months probably even years of like doing everything on my own.

Nicole Otchy: I want to be clear though that you came with a really good base. So the thing that is… Accelerator, there's foundations now, but Accelerator was really intended for people that had a business and were scaling it. But in your case, you, even though I knew you were like styling while you had a full-time job, you came with a lot of insight and understanding. It was just a matter of like repackaging it, which is actually the thing that takes us the longest, because we're in that place where we don't know what we don't know, but we know enough. And so it's the most, it's the hardest place in some ways to sell people into it, because they're like, well, I got this far, but there is this point specifically and I'm not just saying it, because of what I do. When you're new and you don't know anything, it's like, okay, that's logical. I'm going to pay someone to tell me the steps to do it quickly. A lot of times people have income from another job. It's when you're exactly where you are that I think the argument is hard. And I think that's why a lot of people told me not to start with that niche. But I think it's also the part where you can repackage and go the fastest. So when you look at I mean, you were charging your clients. When you look at your services and your pricing, for example, what was the thing that you were like, oh, we're going to have to update that or change that? Or like when you got into the program and started looking at that, what did you realize?

Abbey Page: I always refer back to your calculator or that little formula you gave us to actually create our prices. Because I was just pulling numbers out of thin air, to be honest, before. I was just like, ah, this number seems reasonable. And I was really pricing, before I came in, I was pricing based on, like what I felt comfortable asking for. Even when it wasn't covering my needs, like I was just, you know, there's just like this inherent fear that just creeps inside that you're just, you're so scared to pitch these prices that you know you need, but it's terrifying to ask for.

Nicole Otchy: But it's just as scary to not work at all. Yeah.

Abbey Page: Yeah.

Nicole Otchy: I was so excited to have you on, because you work, you know, you style men. And one of the things, I actually think men continue to be one of the most underserved markets, but a lot of women are afraid to work with men. So I was excited to have you on to hear your thoughts. The number one thing I hear, because you work with clients in person, is they are afraid to meet with men in person. What has been your experience with that?

Abbey Page: It's been awesome. I genuinely love my clients.

Nicole Otchy: And you've never had bad experiences or fear about your safety? I mean, I just think it's one of those things that nobody talks about, but everybody wants to secretly know.

Abbey Page: Yeah.

Nicole Otchy: Is it weird? Is it safe? What's been your experiences with that?

Abbey Page: I have not… no safety issues, like truly I've not… And I mean, on sales calls too, you can feel people out. You can get a good understanding of who someone is. Obviously you don't know everything, but in my experience, no, I've never been scared. I've never, but I'm also not one of those people. Like I don't really live my life afraid of things like that. So no, my clients are awesome.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah, you really do have great clients. So when it comes to content, do you feel like the fact that you are a woman, marketing to men is sensitive or tricky, or do you feel like actually it gives you, it's easier, because you're not talking to your peers?

Abbey Page: I think it's a little bit of both. Like, I'm like, some days I feel I'm like, well, are they really going to trust me? Because I'm not actually like wearing the things that I'm telling them to wear. I'm not really like, I'm not in their shoes. Like, I don't really understand maybe a lot of the like psychological triggers for them. But I also think that having an alternative perspective or a female perspective is part of why men have been attracted to work with me.

Nicole Otchy: I agree.

Abbe Page: Yeah, and I had my client, one of my clients, he told me that. He was like, I thought it was so cool that you worked with men. And he's like, I knew you would understand more of the psychological triggers and anxiety and overwhelm that I was going through. I knew you'd understand that more than a male would. So that built trust with that client.

Nicole Otchy: Interesting, because I'm so glad you shared that, because a lot of people that do work with men are afraid that the way that I talk about marketing or sales or the psychology of it, it may not work, right? But yes, the topic, the subject matter may be like, some of the angles, like what makes men buy. Often when they come to you, I don't think this is true like in their internal thoughts, but they're more comfortable talking about status related triggers than women. Women are actually not as comfortable with that, even though I think women secretly want the status, it's almost like inverted. But when you get to know them and they build a relationship with you, they share insecurities or they share. It's not different.

Abbey Page: No, no. They open up like a book. Like they tell me everything.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. And so then like the marketing then, like it is the same principles. It's just I think where people decide to open up that is different. Yeah.

Abbey Page: Well and something you mentioned that I, a pattern I've noticed too, when I was an accelerator, you were like, I think men are a harder sell at the forefront at the start, but then they will open up and trust you after that. And it's so true.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. They do need slightly different ROI in your content.

Abbey Page: Yeah, yes.

Nicole Otchy: I think, for example, a lot of stylists that work with women will do the, like, there's $730 billion hanging in unused clothes in your closet. And women are like, blah, but I feel fat. I don't care. It doesn't… But if you say that to a man, they're like, that isn't efficient. And I know that's a stereotype. It's a stereotype, but it is the thing that hooks them in. And so like that, it's not, you know what I mean? It's just like a different angle. And they're going to tell you all their feelings, you know? Then they're going to tell you when they feel fat. But first you're going to tell them that you know the numbers. So let's talk about marketing and sales, because you really went hard on wanting to understand sales in the program.

Abbey Page: Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Otchy: And there is a sales component. What was it about specifically the sales process, I would say, the most that you were looking to gain more clarity on?

Abbey Page: I've always been really good at connecting with people and talking to people. But for some reason, when it's like me asking them for money, it's really completely changed how I think and feel about it. And just like a lot of like fears and stuff have come up. I just really wanted to understand the psychology behind it and what people need. It's just like they need to hear these like specific words and triggers and it's just so rooted in psychology and like that is where my brain just became like I need to become obsessed with this, so I can get better at it.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. And you did.

Abbey Page: Yeah.

Nicole Otchy: And you had some hard sales calls in the program and you went… you were like, this like it was so amazing. I was talking to Stevie who's my other coach in the program and we're talking about how you just like went, like it was uncomfortable, but you didn't like shy away, which is the hardest thing in the program to get people to stay with and it was just so amazing to watch. Do you want to share a little bit about what you felt, how you felt like your sales process improved, as a result of your dogged pursuit of sales skills? Because you really got it down, I think.

Abbey Page: I think just slowing down and just like, because I would just, my brain would like race and I would just like, always be worried I was, like, saying the wrong thing or not saying enough of the right thing. So I think just, like, really slowing down, treating it like a conversation and also, like, you talk a lot about, like, mirroring their language, like, really, like, taking the time to listen to them and use the... I take a few notes, not too many notes, but I'll take a few notes and just use, like, the key words they give me and mirror it back to them. And that has made such a big difference.

Nicole Otchy: Interesting, that's really interesting. Yeah, I think one of the things you're experiencing, just to give some context, is like, I think a lot of times men, some women too, I wouldn't just say it's men, I think it's people that are more analytically based and really look at the investment ROI again. I've said it a couple times, but I do think that they're, I had female clients like this, I don't just think it's men, but I do think it is a more natural way that men have been taught to look at investment. You got a lot of skepticism up front. And like some of it comes across as just being a jerk. And like there are people like that, men and women. And they're just not good clients so they tell on themselves and that's great.

Abbey Page: Yes.

Nicole Otchy: Which I think is helpful to hear, because it's not like you're supposed to win them over. You're just like, thank you for the data. I will take it.

Abbey Page: Yes, yes.

Nicole Otchy: And be moving on to the next one. And that was, that was key. I think other people learned a lot from hearing about your experiences there. When you look at it now, do you feel less like having these things under your belt, like you're less like it's convincing and more like it is evaluation of them?

Abbey Page: Yes. Yeah. And I heard on a podcast recently, it was like, think of yourself as a doctor and somebody is coming to you as a patient and you need to prescribe… like you're getting information about them, so that you can prescribe what they need to help them. You're helping someone.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah.

Abbey Page: You're not selling someone this like gimmicky yucky thing, like you're actually trying to help them. So that mindset switch has helped me a ton too.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. One of the things that you got a lot of success with that I just want to share, because I think a lot of people are interested in it is Threads. You have a lot of luck on Threads. What is it that you like about that platform and how has it worked for your business?

Abbey Page: I just love that I can put raw unfiltered thoughts out at any time. I don't have to build an entire carousel. I don't have to jump on to TikTok and film a video of my face. I can just get my thoughts out and find other people that connect to those thoughts very quickly. I don't know. It's like old school Twitter. I loved Twitter growing up. So I don't know. It's just a fun platform and it's just, I don't know. I've also found it has really helped grow my Instagram following too, just very naturally.

Nicole Otchy: For using threads.

Abbey Page: Yeah, mhm.

Nicole Otchy: That's very cool. You're in Austin.

Abbey Page: Yeah.

Nicole Otchy: And do you work with clients virtually too?

Abbey Page: Yes, I do.

Nicole Otchy: Do you prefer one over the other?

Abbey Page: I prefer in person.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. Talk a little bit about that, because I think it was interesting to notice how many people I'm seeing in my programs that are starting to feel that way. And I think for a long time it was like, it's so cool to be virtual, because you can just be on your couch. But I think it's more work. What are your thoughts on that?

Abbey Page: I think it is more work too, especially like more computer work, which I'm always doing computer work. I'm always on my laptop making content or whatnot. And so I'm like, if I can get off my laptop and actually like have a human interaction with my client, it builds so much more trust. It builds a deeper relationship with that person. Like there is nothing more intimate than being in somebody's closet.

Nicole Otchy: I know.

Abbey Page: It's basically in their closet.

Nicole Otchy: It really is. I don't think we, I don't kind of think you realize when you want to be a stylist. I didn't. I was like, it's going to be so fun. We're going to shop. I'm going to eat at Bloomingdale's all the time. I have this weird thing about eating at Bloomingdale's. And then by the time I left, I was like, if I ever see another meal from Bloomingdale's, I'm going to throw up. But it's like so crazy how that happens. But it's true, like you don't realize it and I don't think clients realize it either…

Abbey Page: No, they don’t.

Nicole Otchy: … until the moment comes. Do you find that dudes are like, oh, I don't know why I have that.

Abbey Page: They're like, I guess I'll go change in the next, they'll like go to the next room and like change, it's just like funny.

Nicole Otchy: Do you see them being embarrassed about their clothes? Or like, yeah, my mom bought me that.

Nicole Otchy: Sometimes, yeah. One of my clients, he has a bunch of stuff from his previous relationship that she bought him. And it's just funny. But I would say not. Actually, my first few clients, I did notice they were a little bit like, what's she going to tell me like kind of like bracing? I'm going to go in and tell him to get rid of everything when in fact, it's like such the opposite, it's really just like finding the gold and you know, the things they're not wearing.

Nicole Otchy: Do you find that men come to you as like specific triggers, life triggers that made them come to you over others, or is it kind of all over the map? I

Abbey Page: There's definitely triggers. I see triggers with weight loss. That's a big one. Job change or promotions. I see like dating, if they're like newly divorced, or just out of a relationship. That's a big trigger. Moving to a new city. Those are all usually like some big life transition or change.

Nicole Otchy: I think one of the biggest stereotypes in the styling industry about working with men is that when straight men specifically work with stylists, which I think the idea is that only straight men do work with stylists, though I do have clients who have worked with gay men, just for the record. People are a little bit more dynamic than we like to think.

Abbey Page: Yes.

Nicole Otchy: Do you find that if they get a partner they don't come back? Or do you find that like once, do you know what I mean? There's this idea like, oh, once they get it, they want a stylist to get a girlfriend. Once they get a girlfriend, they're not going to come back. Have you found that?

Abbey Page: I have not found that. In fact, I get a lot of married men coming to me. A lot of dads.

Nicole Otchy: Oh, yes. Let's talk about the dads. I think this is the best sub-niche, because my husband hired a stylist when he became a dad. Talk a little bit about that. They want to be the cool dads or what's up?

Abbey Page: They do. Yes. Yes. They really do. They don't want to be anything flashy or anything crazy. They just want to look cool.

Nicole Otchy: It's such a sweet thing. It's like they want to represent their kids. I love it. I love it. See, this is the thing. People are always like, well, I do women, but then I do men on the side. And I'm like, I don't think you can… Men deserve their own space.

Abbey Page: They really do.

Nicole Otchy: They really do.

Abbey Page: They're awesome clients. They're so sweet. I really have not had a single bad experience with any of them.

Nicole Otchy: And you could have a bad experience and it wouldn't be about having men as clients. It would be about people being people, you know?

Abbey Page: Absolutely.

Nicole Otchy: But I do think it's great to hear your experience, because I think a lot of stylists that start out really do want to work with men for similar reasons that you said, that there's like, they're just not really drawn to the psychological landscape of women and they know it well, because they are women. And I think that's totally okay. And another thing people say is like, oh, but is it transformational? Yes, it's transformational. Men have transformations.

Abbey Page: They really do.

Nicole Otchy: We don't own it. Like, I don’t…

Abbey Page: No, they do. And I have noticed some similar anxieties. I see a lot of the same stressors and triggers and identity triggers that women experience. I have seen it in men. It's not like they don't exist.

Nicole Otchy: They just don't present it up front.

Abbey Page: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Otchy: They're not going to just tell you it's on a sales call. They're not going to say, oh, it's weight gain. I'm nervous about it. They'll say they lost weight, but they're not going to maybe mention that until you get in there and then you realize like, oh, these clothes don't fit. It's just a different…

Abbey Page: It's different. I had a sales call a couple of weeks ago. And he was very, I said something like, how does this feel? Or I used a feel word. And he's very clearly not a feel guy. And that, he was like, I'm not in the business for, he's like, nope. It completely shut him down. And he very much wanted a more transactional versus transformational experience. And I'm like, that's okay. I'm not the girl for you then.

Nicole Otchy: And that right there, my friends, is sales training. I think we tend to think that sales training is just about being like, no, no, I can do all that. No, that's not. That's when sales feels gross, is when you're trying to convince people that you are for them and you are clearly not. And you just did him a huge favor. That is ethical sales. That is ethical sales. I'm so proud of you.

Abbey Page: Thanks.

Nicole Otchy: I really am. So I want to talk a little more about your business before we hop off, because I just feel like you haven't, like since going full-time, you've had such amazing growth. What has been the things that you are coming out of the program like most excited about, or have seen the biggest improvement in?

Abbey Page: I would say definitely my sales process, feeling a lot more confident in my offer. I feel very like bulletproof with my offers, where before I was like constantly trying to like, I don't know. I feel like I was trying to like add or remove something constantly and it just… I never felt good about it. So I think confidence in my offer, confidence in my sales process and then I'm really still trying to work on this piece with the marketing. I feel like marketing is the hardest piece for me.

Nicole Otchy: Everybody is… Yeah, but that's totally normal. I mean, that's the thing about a business. It has so many parts. It would be weird if there wasn't, like, we all have the part that feels a little bit tricky. Like, some people it's sales calls, some people it's marketing, some people it's... I was talking to Liza and Liza was like, yeah, I don't really have any concerns about marketing, but pricing was really hard. Everybody's just different, you know? What is it specifically about marketing that you find uncomfortable, or like it just feels like kind of harder?

Abbey Page: Well, I feel like I signed up to be a business owner, not a content creator.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. Yes.

Abbey Page: I have to be a content creator. And I don't want to be.

Nicole Otchy: I know. I know. It's… I know. I think that's a total thank you for saying it. Somebody had to.

Abbey Page: Yes.

Nicole Otchy: And it's really gotten... I will say as someone that had business for almost 20 years now, it's really gotten to another level.

Abbey Page: Yes. Yes. I'm like this. It's just I don't know. I think even people are getting fatigued of it. Like the audiences are getting fatigued of it.

Nicole Otchy: Well, I think, I do think we're in a moment that the biggest thing and you've actually done this is, I know… I think the reason marketing feels so crazy is it feels like you're always supposed to be doing more. But the truth is you actually are marketing. You are doing the right things. I'm not saying that you're like completely no, like, oh, if I say this, it leads to this. That takes time and that takes casting. But at least you went to the platform that wasn't necessarily the one that everybody says you have to be on. You weren't trying to be everywhere. You're doing the thing that you actually, not that you like it every day, but the thing that you like the most, because you're never going to like everything all the time. And you're making it work from there. And you're getting clients. It doesn't mean that you know exactly the formula yet, but you'll get there. And I think the biggest thing that's hard right now is feeling like you need to be everywhere, but you really don't.

Abbey Page: Yes. And I'm like, everyone's like, Instagram, Instagram, Instagram. And I'm like, I just, I can't. It's just, I can't.

Nicole Otchy: Then don’t. I have clients that are getting clients off of Substack, off of just YouTube, off of just, there are some, actually, I think Threads is probably one of the best places you can be right now. And I think too…

Abbey Page: It's so underutilized.

Nicole Otchy: This is, it's like this time right now where it's like you actually can grow. Yeah. People talk about Instagram, but actually I don't think the majority of like your clients are really there.

Abbey Page: No, they are not.

Nicole Otchy: I just don’t. It's crickets. So that makes no sense. If you loved it, there's enough people on there that you could make it work. But if you don't, then that's an uphill battle not worth having. And you're getting responses on Thread. So if you anyone listening is like at Threat, like old school Twitter person. I have so many clients that are loving it, because they actually can talk to their audience.

Abbey Page: Yes. It's awesome.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah, it's great.

Abbey Page: It is awesome.

Nicole Otchy: So what are you most excited for in your business, now that you are in sort of like this new chapter, you're full time, we've got an offer that is bulletproof, which I don't think I've ever, that is like the, I mean, that's just music to my ears. What are you most excited about, in this next chapter?

Abbey Page: Oh man, I think seeing how much more I can push myself. Also, I've got a few like really random opportunities that have kind of come into my world. And that's kind of the funny thing with like starting my own business is like just these random things that come up and you're like, oh, I can test this or I can try this. I went to a networking event and I met a guy and he owns a, like carpet cleaning company and he was like, would you be interested in revamping our uniforms for our company?

Nicole Otchy: Okay, that's amazing. Wait, we'll have to talk about this offline, because this is something that actually in one of my programs, one of my clients were just asking about this. She's like coal pitching, she's coal pitching because one of the jobs that I did, that actually made a lot of money off of and it really stuck with her, is I redid the uniforms at a high-end crematorium.

Abbey Page:Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

Nicole Otchy: And it became like a retainer, where when they would hire people, I would like refund.

Abbey Page: It's genius.

Nicole Otchy: So it's actually really good money and there's almost nobody that does it. And so I love that he said that. I was like, I wonder if she's going to do their commercials. But oh my gosh, that's so cool.

Abbey Page: Yes. I was like, well, I've never done something like this, but I can figure it out. So I'm exploring that right now.

Nicole Otchy: Oh my gosh. I'll definitely connect with you offline about that. But that is so exciting. All right. Love that. That's the thing. And because you're marketing yourself, not perfectly, not necessarily in all the places you should be, things are just going to find you.

Abbey Page: They do.

Nicole Otchy: And in-person networking is marketing, guys. It's marketing.

Abbey Page: Yes. It really is. I'm challenging myself to go to at least one networking event once a week.

Nicole Otchy: Whoa. Look at you.

Abbey Page: I don't regret it. Every time I go, something good comes out of it.

Nicole Otchy: I love that. Yeah. And I also think people are really, really burnt out of being online. And so…

Abbey Page: Yes. Yeah.

Nicole Otchy: I mean, there's really something to it.

Abbey Page: Yeah.

Nicole Otchy: I mean, we all are. And I'm really proud of you for not trying to overdo it and exhaust yourself, because I just think you find the ways that work and then you work those ways. And going once a week is working those ways.

Abbey Page: Yes.

Nicole Otchy: Thank you so much for being here, Abbey. It was such a pleasure.

Abbey Page: Yes. Thank you for having me.

Nicole Otchy: Thank you so much for hanging out with me. It turns out that social proof is actually pretty important. So if you could help me out, I'd so appreciate it. If you just had a quick free moment and could leave me a rating, or review on the podcast app, that would be killer. And even better, if you wanted to share this episode on Instagram and tag me that would totally make my day and it would bring so much more awareness to the podcast and would help other stylists, just like you, who are looking to build lucrative styling business, because the better each of us does, the better all of us do. Thanks for hanging out with me and I'll chat with you next time.