PODCAST SHOWNOTES

Welcome to the Six Figure Personal Stylist Podcast, the ultimate no-BS business podcast for ambitious personal stylists ready to build a six-figure and beyond personal styling business.

You won't hear the typical snoozefest business advice that most personal stylists get told all of the time. Nope. Instead, I'll be sharing business-building strategies that will help you create a killer personal brand, a cult following of loyal personal styling clients, and make a ton of cash while creating lasting style transformations for your clients.

I'm Nicole Otchy, your host and a former personal stylist of 14 years who built a lucrative styling business in three major cities, but only after spending years trying to crack the six-figure styling business code without burning out. And now I'm here to tell you how to do exactly the same. Let's get into it.

Welcome back to the podcast. Today, we're going to talk about something that I think will help a lot of us understand why your business may not be growing as fast as you want, or if you're feeling a little bit like, okay, we're into March of the new year and you've lost your focus or it's been really busy and you're trying to figure out what to do next to move your business to the next level, this conversation about the stages of building a personal styling business I think will be super, super helpful.

When we're trying to solve problems that aren't relevant to our current stage of business, it makes the whole experience of running a business so much harder and it can make us doubt ourselves. I've seen this at all levels. I felt this at all levels. I felt that in this business. I want to talk about the phases that I came up with from both being a stylist for many years and from working with so many stylists at different levels and what I think of as the “problem” that I want you to have at every level.

Because business never comes without a problem. But sometimes we forget that the problem we have today is the problem we wished for yesterday. So, this will help you feel better because that's the way we play the game. There's no getting out of it, but knowing the appropriate “problem” to be solving at each level will make a huge difference in just how you go about maintaining your energy and just also not comparing yourself falsely to other people because you don't know how many years of business someone's been in and also just because you're in business for a certain amount of time doesn't mean that you're at a different level and that's really important why we can't compare ourselves to other people.

For example, if we're focusing on advanced marketing strategies but we haven't mastered the basics of working with a client one-to-one or we're trying to scale before we have found the service and the marketing strategies that get us to consistent income months, we're going to feel scattered and wonder why we're burnt out, but we're not getting to the next level.

If we're bored in our business because we've been doing it for a while and we're at consistent income months, but we're not sure what our next thing is, like, do we get help? Do we hire a team? Do we change our business altogether? We're going to feel very fearful about what our next step is. Understanding that at each level, you're going to face different things and it's totally normal, it's going to help you move out of it more quickly, but also be more creative.

As we go through these phases, like I said, I want to remind you that years in business and skill as a stylist is not the same as business phase or business level. These are the stages of building a business. You can come with a ton of styling skills, you can come with none. You can come with past prior experience to a business or not.

But either way, just because you have a lot of time with a website, saying you're a stylist or working with people maybe when you worked in retail, doesn't mean you have all of the things you may need or it's super clear what the next level is going to be in your business.

Because I've seen stylists hit the growth phase, which is phase two in six months, like my client, Bari, who you've heard on this podcast back when I launched. Well, I've heard and worked with many, many more who have stayed in phase two, the same phase for years. Bari went from mastery phase one to growth phase two in six months. Not everybody does that.

There's a whole bunch of reasons why that was the case for her. There's a whole bunch of reasons why I see this with stylists all the time that get to that phase. Then I see people that have been doing this for a long time and are still trying to get to consistent income months.

What matters is mastering the key skills and challenges at each phase before we move forward to the next one, not on being overly hung up on the years it took us to get there. I can say that myself, as I've talked about ad nauseam on this podcast. It took me six years to hit seven figures. I think it took me so long because I had so much shame about how long it was taking me to get to the next level. Instead of someone breaking it down like this and being like, “Hey, maybe just focus on this problem for right now and we can worry about all the other problems later and you'll probably get to the next phase faster.”

Let's dive into what these stages look like, most importantly, what you should be focusing on in each one. I want to briefly, before we get into the official stages of business, talk about the pre-launch phase. This isn't a phase I talk about often on this podcast because I have launched this business speaking to established personal stylists. I will be speaking to more groups of people in the coming year/years. But for right now, I just want to speak to this because I have helped lots of folks, before I opened the styling consultancy, start their business from scratch in many other businesses that train stylists.

I have a lot of experience with this. I just think that established stylists are the most neglected group so I came out the gate with that group. But the prelaunch period is before we're in a business officially. Let's think about this as like you're not officially a stylist to the public. You don't have a website yet. Maybe you have another job, you aren't sure that you want to make this your “profession.” But you do like style, it's been on your mind, you're considerate.

I want to tell you what I want you to focus on in that phase before you start putting time and money into a business. Because after just launching Income Accelerator again this round, I talked to a lot of stylists and I've had a lot of conversations qualifying stylists and saying, “You know what, you're just not ready for this program.” I think there's a big misunderstanding that just because you have a website and your friends and family or whatever have worked with you, that you have a business.

You can have your own bank account, you can have everything, but you don't have a business if people are not hiring you that are not your friends and family. I think we don't set people up to understand what kind of skills they should be getting while they're waiting to have the time, the money or put their focus solely on a business because it's not fair, building a business is hard and I think most people can do it that really care about personal styling.

But it's not about whether you can do it, it's about if you want to do it because what we learn when we become stylists is not everybody wants to style strangers that actually maybe what we liked about styling was that we knew our friends and family and we enjoy time with them and that may not be the case but I think that just to save everybody the heartache and also to save you if you're in this phase, later on, you're going to have moments of self-doubt because that's how it works when you try something new.

If you get in the pre-launch phase milestones I'm going to talk about before you launch a business, you're going to feel much more confident in your choice to have launched a business because you will have done all of the due diligence that it takes. I think a lot of people sit in this unsure, neither in nor out stage when they first launch a business because they haven't done some of the work and now the pressure is on to be paid for it and they don't even have the skill yet of styling.

You want to make sure before you launch a business as a stylist that you have the skill part of being a stylist down. What I see is sometimes when we come from the retail world, we think, “Well, then I have all the skills,” but you want to be able to do that to each of the things I'm talking about outside of the store and outside of friends and family and outside of like safe people. Do you know what I mean? Because the store is going to bring in the people on its own. But you are going to have to learn how to approach people and have conversations with people that don't have the benefit of the retailer you work for.

If you're someone like me who came from a normal “office job,” you probably don't have that much experience styling people to begin with. Trying to launch a business like I did before I had the experience—don't recommend that—was very overwhelming because instead of being able to say, “Okay, right now I'm focusing on the styling. Then once I get these milestones done, I'll focus on the business.” That would have been way better for me in terms of building my confidence and also saving money.

Because I was putting money into websites back in the day when you couldn't get a template or use Canva well before I was ready, then you tend to lie to yourself and think that you're failing in business when actually, you just have a website. You have no skills in a website and you're like, “Why isn't this not producing money? That websites don't make us money,” [inaudible].

When you're in this, “I'm thinking about it. I don't know if I should commit” phase, you want to make sure you know how to do the basics of a closet edit, a shopping session online and in person. I would recommend you getting your start in person even if you plan on going virtual and then styling sessions or lookbook, so actually putting the outfits on people's bodies and also making those outfits either taking photos of them and putting them in like a Canva document for someone or taking individual pieces if you shop online for them and putting them into fully styled looks.

Again, in Canva, you don't have to buy professional software until you're ready. At this phase, you want to practice with friends and family. You want to say, “Hey, Mom, can I help you edit your closet?” “Hey, sister. He,y sister’s friends. Hey, whoever,” the best you can do before you launch a business is to work with people one step outside of your friends and family. Maybe your sister's friend or your mom's friend, or I worked with a lot of my mother-in-law's friends, but people that you don't know well, but you know are comfortable enough to practice with.

You're still going to give them a lot of value because they're probably not going to sit around and do their closet without somebody there to hold their hand. Don't be shy about asking this. People love this. A lot of people really love helping people that are starting their business. Just in exchange for a testimonial can be so helpful. Also, you're going to feel so awesome launching a business with testimonials under your belt, trust me.

You want to make sure you're getting your closet edit styling sessions and shopping sessions in person down to three hours or less. Do not launch a styling business when you're still doing 17-hour closet edits, my loves. Okay, three hours, three hours for everything. I'm just going to shock some established stylists too. This is what someone told me the other day. They were like, “If you just told people your rule about snacks and blood sugar in business, people would pay you money just for that.”

My thing is you don't want to work with a client for long enough in person or online that their blood sugar could drastically dip in the time that you are with them because it's going to deeply impact their ability to make decisions. My first coach and the person who taught me how to be a stylist, she taught me this and always taught to have snacks on hand and protein on hand. Seriously, this one was a genius.

I have lived and died by that my whole, I even live and die by it now. I live and die by it with my three-year-old. I live and die by it in all situations because if people start to get hungry and need to make decisions, they will start to tap out and they will wrongly associate your styling service with that negative experience.

Always have protein, number one protein bars, protein shakes, as much protein as possible, especially in person, especially when traveling and in closet edits. Also, make sure you tell people to eat before your sessions. This is going to sound crazy, but the amount of prep I have stylists do for their sessions shocks people. People get such a good experience out of it, people want to be told what to do to make the most out of their investment, and that's what this is.

You need to make sure that you're fueling your body, which is a whole other course I feel like we should have, which is just like how to prepare yourself physically as a stylist, especially if you're in person. Getting in the reps of closet edits, shopping in person, shopping online, because that's going to take you a long time behind the scenes, so expect that.

Building up an arsenal of retailers that you want to pull from over and over again, having those links available to you, building up your own assets in your business in terms of whatever's going to make you or shopping and your styling faster, maybe you have bookmarked all the retailers by different types of styling, adjectives, or boho style or classic style, maybe it's by price range, whatever that looks like, get those things honed in while you are in this pre-launching of a business phase.

Get your sessions down to under three hours and really here just try to get as much experience with as many people in your friend group and outside of it, in your family group and outside of it as possible before we move into working with strangers.

Then we're getting to the official phase one of mastery. The mastery phase begins when you've made the leap to professional styling. Your main focus here is on gaining real-world experience with clients outside of your immediate circle. This is when I'm like, “You know you want to do this, get that website going, open that Instagram account, all of that.”

This is critical because it's in this phase that you need to learn how to read strangers' body language and reactions to your picks, so that you can learn how to manage your own emotions around clients, you need to develop your ability to notice what makes people get stuck at certain parts of the process. Notice how people react when, say that you're going to take their clothes away after an edit or notice how people feel about going over in terms of how much they budgeted for their shopping sessions.

You need to be willing to do maybe some unpaid opportunities for exposure. There are better and worse ones here. A really good example of this is do lives with other service providers on Instagram. Do things that help expose your accounts, your business to new people and do it for free and do it expecting nothing out of it except for the experience because that exposure alone is great.

You don't need to start paying for those things until you really have mastery over working with strangers, but your business doesn't have to be perfect to start getting in front of more people. Your goal in the mastery phase, this is what is going to be the focus, is to work with as many different types of people as possible outside of your social world who you can get experience from.

You can start by doing an hourly rate, you can start by doing it for free. It's up to you how you want to do it. You can do two people, then raise the price, and three people, do four people, but you want to get as many different types of people in different professions, different stages of life, different body types is so important, especially in the friends and family and the pre-launch phase, try to shop with as many people with different body types in your friends and family as possible.

That's going to help you a lot so that when you get to the mastery phase, you have some things to draw on because a lot of stylists get stuck in the mastery phase where they're trying to build the business, they're trying to figure out how to do social media, but they don't even know what stores to go to for clients that have different types of body shapes that aren't theirs. That's important.

There are tons of stuff on YouTube about this. There are tons of information about dressing different body types and take notes, like make a little notebook for yourself so that when you get to this mastery phase, you're able to help for a minimal or a mid-tier price folks that are outside of that group. How are you going to get to these people? You're going to do your friend's sister's styling and the preface. Then once you work with her, say, "Hey, do you have any colleagues at your work? Or do you have any friends that I could do a closet edit with? Do you have any friends that would want me to shop online with them?”

Ask everyone in your network, send out an email to your whole family, and say, "I'm ready to officially do this. Please give names," and have them pass along your social media. You really want to be asking for people outside of your groups of friends and family. The best way to do that is to get one phase outside of your friends and family and then ask those people for recommendations.

Even if you've got to do it for free in the mastery phase, that's fine because we're trying to master the business and working with a stranger. This is where we're getting into business and we're also trying to just get a website up and open our own bank account for your business. You need a bank account for your business just to be clear. Do not let people Venmo you. At best you can do PayPal, but you're going to be so happy later on that you have that account set up and everything is clean for your taxes.

Mastery phase, the goal here is to get as much experience with as many types of people. Because what you want to know, “Okay, I'm ready to get out of this mastery phase” is number one, you can do those sessions in your sleep, those basic styling sessions we talked about and you know from the depths of experience you have with different types of people who the group is that you are most excited to work with and who you really want to hone in on or what style problem you want to hone in on.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a niche as a group of people, it can be a specific problem. Maybe it's people post-divorce, and you're fine working with men and women, or just notice what all the different things are that make you like a client. I've had people say, “What I like about the clients that I've worked with after mastery phase is the way that they approach the process.”

Sometimes that's not in a niche, sometimes that's just like your clients weren't jerks. But maybe they really wanted to be artistic with their style but they didn't all have the same kind of job. That's okay, but you want to know if you could have one conversation about style and you could solve one problem and you could do it for a specific group of people, well, who would it be?

When you have enough experience to confidently do all the aspects of a shop of a styling experience, which is the edit, the shop, and the styling, and you know who you're ready to talk to long term, you're ready for phase two, which is growth. Now in phase one, in mastery, you may probably still want to have another job or maybe you are slowly ramping up to being paid. It may not be that this is a full-time job here.

Because especially if you have no business experience and you have to get a website up and do all this stuff, it can be hard unless you're coming in with a significant budget. If you're coming in with a significant budget because you're leaving a six-figure job and you can hire people to do it, amazing. I love that. That's great. But I just want to be clear, don't expect to have a full-time job, two kids, no budget, do your website by yourself, and then get to growth phase in like a minute because that's crazy.

Focus on getting as much experience as possible even if it means a website later. You don't need a website until you have real serious pricing and stuff. Again, I didn't have a website for the entire year and a half of the styling consultancy and made six figures. You do not need a website, but make sure that you're at least able to say, "Here's what I really think is important in styling in terms of the things I am most led up by before you get to phase two," which is the growth phase.

This is where the majority of the stylists I advertised to are and where you can be stuck in for years or months, it really just depends. I was here for years, full disclosure. This is when you're working with paid clients regularly, but your income feels like a roller coaster. Phase one, maybe you have income, maybe you don't and certainly will feel like a roller coaster when you're trying to get those skill sets. But here you already have the experience, you know who you want to talk to, you know what you care about as a stylist.

You're well beyond the friends and family phase, and what you really need to think about here is creating stability, developing clear messaging that resonates with your ideal client, building packages now that we already know how to do the basics that align with your target market's needs, and their shopping budget, because all of that's relative, and refining your marketing to consistently attract the right clients.

This is where Income Accelerator, my program, is written for because you can have a ton of experience and you can just have a little bit of experience. But all you really needed this phase is to really know who you want to talk to because that's how you get your marketing sharp. That's how you build the right types of services. That's how you can create services that don't look like everybody else's. You have enough experience in the styling industry to be able to do those things.

What the key factors are of success in the growth phase, and this is how you're going to know what will make the biggest difference to you getting to phase three, which is where everybody wants to be, is what content gets the most engagement, what do your clients say they want more of, and what problems do your ideal clients have that they are most preoccupied with and lead them to hire you. That is the information you want to really be combing through at this stage of business.

Most people are like, "I want to scale. I want to do this." And so they're ready to go to a group program. But if they can't sell their one-to-one, which their ticket price should be high enough and their number of clients they can even take a year with is low enough, you can still have energy to market your business, if you're looking at the right things, people try to get to a group program, which I'm not saying you can't get to, but a group program won't take away a lot of your messaging problems.

If you can't get one person to buy it from you, you're not going to be able to get 8 or 10 or 20 because it's a skill set. It's not just the right words. It's a set of skills and ways of interacting with your audience. If you don't know the right way to talk about the solutions that your ideal clients are most obsessed with that gets them to buy, it doesn't matter if it's one-to-one, a group program, a PDF, no one's going to buy it because it's a skill that you don't have.

It's not just about changing the chairs on the Titanic deck and hoping it doesn't go down. You have a fundamental problem that a group program isn't going to change. When you're really aware of like, “How am I creating content that speaks to these people? Am I getting in environments with them? Am I understanding them?” That's why you really have to care about the group you're going into because you want to think of them as people you study.

When you think of it that way, it's way more fun too. What you really want to consider in this growth phase is sometimes it feels like you have to slow down a little bit to speed up, because you really want to stop working with just anyone that will come your way. We want to get you really dialed into the right people. Every time you're working and you're talking to clients, you're talking to the right people, it's helping you get ideas for messaging. It's helping you get your marketing better.

Your whole business works as an ecosystem like we talked about a few episodes back. That's why the growth phase is hard. You have to slow down to speed up and lots of stylists don't want to do that because they think that it means they're not being successful. They're wrong. It's how you get successful. It's how it happens. There's no other way to do it.

If you want to stay in one-off packages in the growth period, you can. I recommend you play around with one larger styling service. It's like the closet edit, the shop and the style together, and learn how to message that. Because some people find that when their price goes up, they all of a sudden can't talk about the service so great.

You really want to think a lot about how are you developing messaging that hits specifically to a person that you know you want to work with to the problem that you know you want to focus on and to learn and think about different ways to say those core things in your message that makes people listen.

You have to try it for a while and you have to be consistent. But if you can go through this uncomfortable phase to get to the point where you know what to say to people to hire you, it's a game changer. Then you have a lot more freedom when you go to phase three, which is the expert phase.

What's so interesting about the expert phase is that everybody wants to be at the expert phase before they've done all the things they need. Because the key to phase two is that you have to get yourself to consistent income months. Because in order to be in the expert phase, which is really the scaling phase that people are trying to get into so fast when they haven't mastered the foundation of their business, you need to have consistent income months.

This is phase three where people are fully in their expertise. Doesn't mean that everything's perfect. Doesn't mean that they're even earning as much as they want, but they're probably at six figures. A lot of my clients in this space are. When I say consistent income months, I don't mean that every month you make $10,000 or $50,000. I mean that overall, you know that there are sales coming in every month. It may not always be the same amount of money, but you're consistently knowing that you're going to have sales this month.

You may have those fluctuations, but where you don't need to worry about, “I have no idea what to say to get people to buy.” We're out of that phase by the time we're in phase three because if you can't get to that point, then being in this expert phase and the things I'm going to talk about, you don't have any foundation for it so you'll never be able to make traction.

Again, this isn't about making specific amounts of money, it kind of is irrelevant. I would say that by the expert phase, you have to be paying yourself. You have to be able to know what to say in order to have people come to you. You have to have some money left over to hire some help. You want to be in a good phase. I think $100,000 is a pretty low a number to be in the expert phase because there's taxes, there's all the other things, if you make $100,000, you're not taking that home. You're usually taking home like maybe $60,000 depending on what your expenses are.

I would like you to be at $120,000, $125,000 or above. That's me when I talk to my clients, but you want to be in that phase. This is the only phase that I think a number matters because you have to pay yourself, you have to have some leftover to get to where you want to go.

In this phase, phase three, you're focusing on building your legacy, really developing your thought leadership, like really, really. You've already started to notice what people resonate with that you care about. Now you're learning how to say these things in even better, more magnetic ways. You're thinking about creating additional revenue streams, that's scaling, and you're potentially building a team or bringing in junior stylists. Maybe the team is administrative, doesn't matter.

You're really fine-tuning your messaging and your branding. This is when I'm like, “Yes, go all in, spend a ton of money on your branding, do an amazing high-end website,” because you have all of that foundation to know your investment is going to be right. You hire a copy editor or a copywriter. They're going to know exactly how to talk to these people because you're able to tell them exactly who these people are.

The key difference in this phase is your expertise and your messaging make you money beyond just styling sales, one-to-one styling. This could include multiple group programs. It could include speaking engagements, writing books, consulting within or outside of the industry, creating signature methodologies that you are trademarking and making sure you have your intellectual property all handled.

This is what I'm working with a lot of higher-level one-to-one clients on after they've gotten to the point where they have their signature process down if they have one. They know the kind of angle they're talking about and they're aware of what to say to get people into their one-to-one. They're maybe feeling burnt out with one-to-one because they want to do more of that thought leadership kind of work.

Again, it can be a lot of different ways that comes out, but they're ready to take some things off their plate and potentially even build out a styling firm. I have one styling company that's building up multiple, like they're working with men, they're doing photo shoots for families, they have all of it so they're building a whole team, which means you have to train them, which means you have to have the training manuals and helping them figure that stuff out.

There are many levels to this and this is where you think, okay, at this phase, you have consistent income you can think about “What do I want my legacy to be?” That's very hard to do when you're also trying to get people to listen to you. And you don't know what your legacy can be as a stylist if you don't know how to reach people consistently that you can make a difference from because it's in those conversations that you learn what your greatest ideas are.

We tend to think like we do this a lot in isolation, but when we step outside of ourselves and we get really connected to our market, that's when we really learn where our greatest contribution could be. It has to, of course, come from us and the things we're interested in, but this is why you need to have a certain level of experience before you could be creating signature methodologies and programs and investing in getting things trademarked because it's a lot of money.

When we're trying to go to a different phase of business before we've mastered that phase, we will create problems for ourselves that we will blame ourselves for when we just didn't know that we're trying the wrong problem. I think it's also helpful to know what these phases are when you're thinking about making an investment and think, “Is this going to move me to the next level?”

Now these are pretty broad. That's why I teach frameworks and not plans to people because I'm not saying you have to work with a certain amount of people. I'm not saying you have to have a certain price point. I'm not telling you anything except for what the problems are at each phase, you have to figure out. I think that is the best way to help stylists stay focused, but also not create a bunch of clones, because that is a problem right now.

Everyone sounds the same. Everyone's saying the same things, and that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the message as itself, it just means it's going to be harder for you to move past the levels. The people that move throughout these stages the fastest, like my client Bari, for example, they really are able to comfortably, they work really hard, I'm not going to lie to you, and they also are okay with standing out, even if it's not perfect, even if it's not completely polished, because your business is a dialogue with your ideal client.

The more comfortable you are with that, the faster you get through all of these stages. Trying to skip ahead will lead to burnout without being booked out. I want you to think of it as like building a house. You got to master your foundation, get in the reps with all kinds of people to figure out what you like. Growth, you want to start building the structure, the walls, the plumbing, not only is the sexiest part, but literally critical to the whole thing working.

Then the expert phase is where you add those finishing touches that make it memorable. I'm not saying you cannot make an impact at every stage, but you'll make the biggest impact if you're focusing on the right things. Because when we focus on the wrong things, we're so overwhelmed that we can't be the solid base for our clients to have the transformation they need.

I want to remind you that your success in this industry isn't about racing to the top. It's not about having the base Instagram following or TikTok following. It is about building something sustainable that serves you and your client. When you focus on mastering the challenges of your current phase without rushing to the next one, you'll hear yourself better to know how you can make the biggest impact because you and what you like do matter.

Sure, there are parts of this that are uncomfortable. I definitely point those out so that you guys know it's normal to not feel like it's puppies and rainbows and perfect all the time growing a business. But not because I want you to be uncomfortable all the time, because I want you to know like, “Oh, that uncomfortable feeling, it doesn't mean you should stop. That's all. It's totally okay.”

I want to thank you for tuning in today and remind you that you will like your clients when we say to them when they want to get to a new type of style for themselves and they want to feel more self-expressed, they're going to have to feel a little uncomfortable, they're going to have to go outside of their comfort zones, they're going to have to learn new skills that will require them to be perceived in public, maybe wearing something or acting in a way that feels foreign to them and nothing has gone wrong.

We tell our clients that you might have to feel a little uncomfortable, you have to get out of your comfort zone, you have to try new things, so do you. The growth phase is a lot about that. That's why I love the growth phase, it's why I work mostly with stylists in the growth phase. I have plenty of clients one-on-one that I work with in the expert phase, but the growth phase is the part that I talk to the most because it's the hardest and it's also the most magical if you let yourself think of it the way you think of it for your styling client. I hope that's helpful. I will talk to you next episode and yeah, hit me up on Instagram. Let me know your thoughts on this.

Thank you so much for hanging out with me. It turns out that social proof is actually pretty important. So if you could help me out, I'd so appreciate it. If you just had a quick free moment and could leave me a rating or review on the podcast app, that would be killer. And even better, if you wanted to share this episode on Instagram and tag me, that would totally make my day and it would bring so much more awareness to the podcast and would help other stylists just like you who are looking to build lucrative styling business because the better each of us does, the better all of us do. Thanks for hanging out with me and I'll chat with you next time.