PODCAST SHOWNOTES

Welcome to the Six Figure Personal Stylist Podcast, the ultimate no-BS business podcast for ambitious personal stylists ready to build a six-figure and beyond personal styling business.

You won't hear the typical snoozefest business advice that most personal stylists get told all of the time. Nope. Instead, I'll be sharing business-building strategies that will help you create a killer personal brand, a cult following of loyal personal styling clients, and make a ton of cash while creating lasting style transformations for your clients.

I'm Nicole Otchy, your host and a former personal stylist of 14 years who built a lucrative styling business in three major cities, but only after spending years trying to crack the six-figure styling business code without burning out. And now I'm here to tell you how to do exactly the same. Let's get into it.

Hello, hello, welcome to another episode. I'm really excited to dive into this topic of leaving no social proof behind. Before I get into the nitty-gritty of how to make sure that you're getting good social proof, you're really just making sure that you're on the internet, talking about the results you're getting for your clients in a way that feels good to you and is representative of the transformation that you create, we are going to talk about why this specific activity, getting social proof, is a revenue-generating activity and we're going to talk about why it is so related to sales and then I'm going to give you some ideas for how to get better testimonials and rewire your brain around doing this.

Because it's easy for us to say who we are or what we do for people but it's not really the thing that makes people buy, especially if they are on the fence. What makes people buy if they're on the fence is outside voices and outside influences that are saying, “Yes, I had this experience with this stylist and it was amazing. Yes, the transformation is what this person claims it is on the internet.”

Now, of course, your testimony may not exactly sound like that, but that is what they do. That is what they reinforce to the person that's on the fence. Interestingly, I don't think most of us, when we're trying to build our styling businesses, stop long enough to think about the client experience, which is something that I feel really, really strongly about both because it's just good business, but also because it just makes you a better stylist to really try to get into the general headspace of a styling client.

Now, are you going to have wacky experiences with clients because people are people and they're wacky sometimes? 100%. I'm not going to tell you that there's something that's going to get you around having a couple of bad clients or having clients that don't seem to be overjoyed. But the reason I talk about this stuff the way I talk about it like transactional and transformational and that kind of stuff is so that I can set you up to get the best client experience so that they can tell other people and then it makes your life a lot easier because you don't have to be constantly scrounging for clients.

If you think about how you behave as a consumer and how you behave when it comes to referrals in your life, I think that's a really good place to start this conversation. One of the things that I say a lot to you guys, and I'm really getting a rep for it, and I'm sure it's going to be a t-shirt someday, is stop posting links on your stories.

Now, of course, there's a time and a place for it. Of course, I don't mean that in all cases. Of course, this is nuanced, and I probably should do an entire podcast episode on it. If you are doing that as your main marketing strategy, we have a problem because you're training people to not hire you because the thing that people want from stylists more than anything is shopping and outfits.

When you're giving them links and you're also telling them something like, “I want you to think for yourself when it comes to your style and cultivate your unique style,” but you're also giving them links, that's completely antithetical to them developing their own style.

Now, if you are a stylist who's like, “It's the middle of summer and everyone's sweating through their clothes, here's a shirt that absorbs sweat great,” and you want to link that, okay, fine. Now you're showing me your expertise, but linking every outfit you're wearing is certainly not showing me that you're able to style other people.

What is important about what I'm saying with respect to the linking, it actually is related, is that a lot of stylists can't stop linking things for the exact same reason that people love to refer you.

People love to suggest things that they like. That is why so many stylists are actually struggling with their marketing because they're behaving in a way that is emulating the type of content that they enjoy and the type of reinforcement that they like.

They like hearing from people, "Oh, I love your shirt. Where did you get it?" But they're not thinking about the bigger business context. That's fine. You can keep doing that and you're going to get the results that you get, but it certainly doesn't speak to the client experience.

It just speaks to like, sure, somebody might have gotten that shirt, but that person was probably not going to hire you. Nine times out of 10, if they're there for the link, they're not there to do the work of styling and you're training your audience.

But it's important because the reason why stylists do it all the time is because we just love, as human beings, it's a reflection of just being a human. You love and I love to recommend things. We just love it because when people recommend things that they love, they feel like they're in the know about something.

When you decide ahead of time, like so many of my clients do, and we have to have chats about it, that your clients aren't going to refer you, they're not going to give you a testimonial, if you ask, they won't give you a photo, they won't give you a video, so you're not going to bother, if you decide ahead of time for your clients, they don't get to indulge in the behavior that human beings love, which is to talk about something that they love and refer.

That is exactly what testimonials and social proof allow other people to do. Now, again, at the end of this, I'm definitely going to talk about some of the challenges that can come up with getting testimonials and stuff. But generally speaking, if you are someone who is really dedicated to creating an amazing client experience, which does take some work, but it just takes upfront work and it pays off so much, getting this level of testimonial that's going to help potential clients leap over the fence and finally hire you, it's going to be well worth it.

Because when your testimonials back up your content, you will get people buying so much faster. I can say that from personal experience in this business and in my last business. If you really are struggling with asking for social proof and asking for testimonials and referrals in your business, I want you to take some time after you listen to this podcast and think about why that is.

Sometimes that's because we need to decondition ourselves from feeling like if we ask for something, we're putting somebody out, which is why I'm starting the top of this episode with this idea of reminding you that we all love to prefer and suggest things that we love.

If that's the case, that you need to decondition yourself around asking for anything, there are probably other things in your business that need to be cleaned up because you are in people-pleasing mode and so many of us, myself included, have had to get out of that and sometimes we fall back into it and then we got to pull ourselves back out of it.

But just the awareness of that and the awareness that even when you're in people-pleasing mode, it's actually really about you. We people please so that we can make our environment and the people in it feel safe to us so that we can know, “Well, if I'm nice to them, they'll be nice to me and now I'm managing and controlling my environment.”

It's never really from a place of making the other person's experience great. If you're in a people-pleasing mode, including deciding ahead of time for your clients what they will and will not do in all areas in all situations, whether that be testimonials, prepping before your appointments, or whatever else, you are not being as client focused as you could be.

I know you don't think you're being selfish. I know you've told yourself that it's about the client, but it's not. It's not. Go look on the internet anywhere about people-pleasing behavior and it will tell you that it's actually a form of manipulation.

I think that word is a little strong because I don't think anyone means to be manipulative. I know I didn't when I did these things. But it's not client-centered because you're really saying, "I'm going to decide for them. They're not going to do it,” because you're either afraid they're going to say something bad or you are trying to control the interaction in some way such that you will make sure they don't think something bad about you because you're asking something of them.

You really need to remember that actually, the psychology shows us that people love to recommend things that they love. Again, look at all the people on the internet, stylists who shouldn't be and influencers who should be linking things and have careers out of it. We love it.

I love to watch that content. It doesn't mean it's a good business model for stylists, but that is something that you need to consider. You are not doing anyone a favor. Everyone's an adult in the equation, and if they want to say, "I'm all set. I don't have time to give you social proof," or they want to ignore you, then you have your answer, and you didn't lose anything.

But you'll be surprised. When you ask for things, you get them more often than not. I also think that this conversation around social proof and being able to ask for social proof is connected, if you're shying away from it, it's very much connected to your belief in your services, your belief in yourself, and your expertise.

Because I see all the time that stylists may get good results for their clients, but sometimes they don't get great results for their clients. But they're also not working that hard to make them better.

Often that's because they're afraid if they ask for feedback in some way, it will just crush them. But nine times out of 10, the way that you ask for feedback from somebody is going to dictate the way that they give it to you.

If you say to someone, "Hey, I would love a testimonial and hear more about what you thought of your experience working with me," and they say, "You know, there were some things that would have been better," if you go into that conversation, like, "Really?" and you don't get defensive, and you say, "Tell me more,"—and you're going to have to learn how to regulate yourself, which is why I've talked about this again and again on episodes that you've listened to, you're going to have to emotionally regulate yourself—but if you go into it that way, the person is going to be disarmed, and they're going to give you the feedback in a way that both sometimes makes them have to take responsibility for things not going well, but also in a way that you're probably going to be able to receive it better.

But if you go at it in a way that is defensive, you're going to get that reaction from them and the feedback is going to be stronger maybe than they even mean. I see so many stylists going into client interactions in a way that is so adversarial and it is not a surprise to me that they then also tell me that they don't have great client relationships.

Often when a client or a potential client goes through a sales call with me, I'm really looking for certain behaviors. When I see them, they're usually a red flag to me. Always when people ask a question from a place that is like, “Oh, I'm over here. I'm too good for this,” like, “Oh, I'm sure that you do great work for these people, but I'm in this level,” red flag, red flag.

Why? Not because I can't handle that attitude. I can, but because it tells me that person is so shut down because of their own insecurities, a lot of things are not going to get into them in our work together.

I will tell them, “I don't think we're a good fit.” That's also going to happen with a client if they feel like your energy is not open and understanding and within reason, accommodating of them.

I have worked with stylists that say things like, "Oh, everything I suggest every client buys," like, "Okay, fine. That doesn't mean they like it and that doesn't mean that they don't return it." People are allowed to not like things that you buy for them and the experience can still be good. You can still ask for a referral from that person and it will be fine.

Those are always the people that do not have enough testimonials. Those things are connected. So, you have to accept that part of having a business and getting good is receiving feedback, and you also have to get good at deciding whose feedback you're going to listen to.

If that is what's keeping you back from testimonials and getting more social proof, and I'm talking about this because it is in a lot of cases, that's work you have to do in order to be able to figure out how you're going to get over that and be brave. Because everything about being a business owner and being a good business owner is just getting braver.

That's all it is. It's doing it scared. It's doing it not ready and being willing to roll up your sleeves and get better. It's really work that's worth it. If that is in the way of you getting social proof, it's also in the way of you getting more clients. It's also in the way of you being a better stylist.

That's why this topic is so important. Because if you don't have social proof, then the people that are looking at the styling experience as a vulnerable thing who are usually really good clients, honestly, because they take it seriously, it's not a throwaway experience to these people, those are the people, particularly transformational clients, they are the people that need the most social proof.

Not for any reason, except that the trust they're about to put in you is higher in the person that expects this to be a transaction because there's really no difference between them going into any random store and finding somebody who looks like they're somewhat competent and asking for their advice on clothes and hiring you.

But the transformational client needs more because they're going to really let you in more. It's not a transaction. They're going to look inside. They're going to take your feedback really seriously.

If you can't get out of your own way in order to give them what they need, there's a bigger issue going on in your business that may be being driven by your own blind spots and someone has to tell you because someone had to tell me. You just got that piece of advice for free and I probably spent a hundred grand getting it from somebody and I'm still getting it from my coaches who are constantly tone-checking me about things.

I pay a lot of money for that, and I'll continue to pay money for that because I want to be better for my clients, period. Yeah, let's talk about the psychology of this and why, again, this is really important.

Yes, obviously we all love to recommend things. It makes us feel good. It makes us feel in the know, which is another thing lots of people love about having a stylist, it makes them feel in the know to have a stylist so there's some social influence that they get when they talk about having a stylist.

But also there's this book called Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. It's a great book. It's linked in the show notes. It's a classic, highly recommend. It's by a man named Robert Cialdini. It was written in the 80s, but it's been updated multiple times.

He talks about the importance of social proof and influence and how when we have social proof, it creates more influence in our life. I want to get into some of the stats around this because there is real data to this. 90% of consumers read online reviews before making buying purchases of any kind.

Think about it, don't you also do that? Do you go to restaurants that you've never been to without reading the Yelp reviews? No. Most people don't even buy a toothbrush on Amazon without reading the reviews.

First of all, just a moment of silence for the women and the men who are out there giving reviews on things and leaving them for the rest of us. Especially the ones that are not in any way, shape, or form incentivized, they're the last pure humans left on the planet, I'm convinced.

There's no universe in which I am going to write a long and extensive review of something unless it's somebody I loved who released a book or something, or you're paying me a bunch of money, or it's another service provider that they don't have to pay me. If it's another service provider like my interior designer or my accountant or something, I'll talk about them all day long.

But just a random website, no, hard pass for me. My attention span is too short. Anyone that does that is an earth angel, in my opinion, and thank you for your service if you're one of those people listening.

We already know that. Why would it be any different if people are going into an experience like styling, which is as intimate as it is? It's not. But 85% of consumers claim that they are persuaded to trust a business corporation or brand more when they see somebody has personally recommended it through some form of social proof, whether that be a case study, a public endorsement that says a video or a photo, or they go to something that they know that the consumer had to post and could not be posted by the business owner.

Like a Google business review or a LinkedIn review, as far as I know, you're not able to go ahead and put that in for yourself. You have to send the link externally. That is why Google business reviews and LinkedIn reviews get really good attention from people because we understand that we have the credibility of knowing it came from an outside person.

It's incredibly important for you to hear that 85% of consumers claim that this is what builds trust. That's knowing that it came from somebody personally, this recommendation. That's why when you put up a quote or just a random text quote of somebody saying that they loved working with you, it has zero credibility in the online space, zero.

It's really important that you're getting people's photos at a minimum, at the maximum, I suggest doing a video and making sure that there are other ways, like I said, Google business, LinkedIn reviews, whatever, those types of platforms where the client has to enter the information in order for it to be posted, because that, again, is going to give you a lot more credibility.

That's why screenshots give a lot more credibility than those quotes that people are putting up on the internet. Have I done it? Yes. before I understood how important these things were, and the biggest, biggest, biggest thing I wish I knew, I really wish I knew this, was that if I had gotten some of my clients on my old podcast, it probably would have changed the game. I highly recommend that.

Even if I didn't have a podcast, I wish I had done a Zoom interview, strip the audio, and put it in my newsletter. Because there are some people that are more comfortable on audio than in video. That's completely legitimate, completely legitimate.

If you have a normal job, and you're not on the internet like us, of course, they're going to be a little anxious about it. That makes perfect sense. How can you make the credibility as high as possible while also being sure that you're getting the client to be able to be in a position where they're comfortable sharing?

Maybe they're not comfortable on video or whatever, but most people will give you a photo, especially if when you ask for the testimonial, you go back and ask for a photo and say, “Listen, this really makes a big difference in women like you who are trying to get to the next level in their career and being a mom,” whatever it is, make it personal, “having a photo of you makes those women, the women just like you,” and you want to be specific about what you mean when you say women or men just like you, “having that photo helps women like you or men like you look at this and take it seriously because there's a real and behind it so that it's believable. Would you be open to giving me your photo?”

Now, listen, I just sold you on that because now I get why I'm supposed to give you a photo and it's to help other people. That is the truth about social proof is that it actually does help other people.

It helps you with your business. It helps another potential client see that there's real value in this experience for themselves and now everybody wins. The person that's giving the testimonial, if they're going to do it, they do feel good and excited because they're helping another business owner.

That's why I will forever and always tell you to hire all of the amazing women that I hire to help me and support me in my business because I love it when they win. I am so excited when somebody hires my podcast producer, hires my accountant. I don't need a kickback, I am just excited. I don't need it to be some kind of incentivized thing. I'm just going to tell you.

It's because I love the high I get off that selfishly. I love that they're winning. I love that I'm building an economy of women because that's important to me and my values. When you think about it like this, everybody wins and it's not about you anymore. That is what is so amazing about social proof. It's also going to help you feel more legit.

How do you get social proof if you have people in your life or you've had clients who don't respond? Well, I think it's important to think about who your client is. If you have a client who is more on the transactional side, they really identify with being busy, go, go, go, again, everyone's busy, but people that identify as busy, sometimes it's a power play, and so maybe they don't respond, if that's a lot of your clients, it could be tricky.

But one way that I have advised my stylist that I work with to get high-quality testimonials from people that are busy, including people that are famous, is when they're in the moment and the person is absolutely raving—and I was trained to do this. It’s one of the best sales things I've ever been taught—you say, “Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad that you love this. Would you be open to me using what you just said and then repeating it back as a testimonial?” and they will be like, “Yeah, of course,” because they're already on the high. Awesome.

Then you're going to type it into your phone when you have a [Slack] and you're going to say like, "Hey, here it is. Does this look good to you?" They're going to say like, "Yes." They're usually going to say something like, "Yes, not only does it look good, but you can change it however you want, do whatever you want."

“Awesome. If I grab a photo of you off of LinkedIn or whatever, would that be okay?” They're probably going to say yes, because they're already in the high, again, of giving you praise. You have to get good for listening to those moments and you have to make it just second nature.

The way that you learn to do this is that you believe in yourself and your business. All of this comes back to if you are someone that has a business plan and a service menu and all of those things that you just copied off of somebody else, first of all, you're not alone, more than half of the styling industry did that too, but you're not going to have the level of belief in yourself and in what you do that you would have if you truly did and put in the work.

That's the thing about putting in the work. Not only does it work, but it also gives you a sense of a new identity because now you're someone that didn't just go and take somebody else's styling services or just do what everybody else did. You're someone that thoughtfully considered this.

Wouldn't you feel more proud if you got a degree and you worked and you studied? I mean, it wouldn't be fun, but you would have gotten that degree, you would have all that knowledge, and you'd feel really proud of yourself because then you could go and if somebody asked you something about the thing you got a degree in, you could talk about that very easily, it would just roll off your tongue.

If someone just gave you an honorary or printed diploma and handed it to you, you'd have a hard time showing that off because you would feel a little bit weird about it. You wouldn't feel like you did the work to deserve it, and you most certainly could not speak on demand about it.

That is what doing the work in your business does. That's why I'm such a fan of you getting really good at your marketing. First of all, it's fun if you do it right. It's just relating to people in different ways. Second of all, it's real hard to feel like you're not in imposter syndrome mode if you're just doing what everybody else on the internet is doing.

If you don't make the investment in your time, your money, or whatever, in order to get the information you need to actually feel like an expert, you're just always not going to feel like an expert. It's really simple. It's so simple.

Nobody gets anything for free. You can get to a certain level. I had people that are like, "Oh, I've never had a coach and I got to this level.” That's great. I think that's wonderful if you don't need that. But at some point, you have to ask yourself, "Could I have done it better and faster if somebody else helped me?”

What are you getting out of that? What are you getting out of nobody helped me? I mean, maybe it's just the fact that nobody helped you and you didn't think to get help and so you got here and that's great. But there is a point at which you have to say, “Okay, if I want to be taken seriously, then I have to take myself seriously.”

That includes you being able to ask for a testimonial or social proof in a way that allows you to feel like, “Because I care about my job and I do it well, and I'm all in for my clients and I'm all in for my business, yes, I want to help more people.”

When you come at asking for social proof from that position, it doesn't feel like a problem. It feels like you're helping more people. It's not something you're burdening other people with.

I had to work so hard to get to this place, but what happens is you become this type of buyer as well in the process. The more you believe in what you're selling because you do the work, and as Myron Golden, who's my coach's coach, says, "All work works. It either works on you or it works for you," and when he said that, it completely rearranged my brain.

I was already all in on this concept of “You have to do the work.” But when you do the work in your business, it trickles in in ways you might not expect. Maybe it's not a ton of clients at once, but maybe when you do get clients, like one of my clients is amazing, she had a lot of stops and starts in her business because of her personal life and then she recently started signing more clients and she just said to this woman who's pretty famous during a fitting, "Hey, you just said something and it was really great. Do you mind if I use it as a testimonial?”

The woman was like, “Oh, my gosh, yes.” She posted it and it got a lot of attention because this is a pretty public figure. I was so proud of her because she did the work that the old her never would have probably had the courage to ask.

But all the work she put into figuring out her packages and to her marketing and to thinking about her ideal client led her to be able to get that social proof. You may not see the connection when you're doing the work, but what ends up happening is one day, that work prepares you, and sometimes it doesn't prepare you for the thing you think you're preparing for. But all of it goes towards the greater good in some way.

Then she signed another client, and then another client asked her for a retainer, they asked her for the retainer. She didn't even bring it up because of the type of social proof she was getting.

Literally, she did not have to sell anything because of it. That's what's possible for you when you start getting serious about social proof. You also have to understand that if people don't reply to your requests, that's not a problem. It doesn't mean anything.

Some people truly don't understand why that's important because they don't have a business of their own, which is why it is your job to learn how to frame the ask in a way that lets them know why it's important and how it helps other people that are like them, that might want this experience.

It's really the work that you need to be all in on doing, and when I talk about income-generating activities in your business, this is what I mean. This is what I mean, and that's why I am so obsessive about you guys learning how to actually market properly and not market like influencers, and just putting up links, because what is on the line is your credibility, number one.

Number two, the person who's watching you that's thinking, "I would love to hire her, but I'm not sure she's going to get me," there's somebody out there watching your content who isn't speaking up, because a lot of buyers never speak up, by the way. Many of you who have hired me, I didn't even know you were out there until you reached out and decided to hire me.

Because you're so addicted to basically people liking your stuff or the soft balls of contents that you keep throwing, you're never putting out the things that actually move the needle. When you start to get social proof and start to put it out there, you start to move the needle because you are actually saying to people, “This is what you can expect from me, it's not just what I say, it's what you can expect from me.”

The number one converter of clients, of my own clients in this business before I had the podcast was a live I did with Erin Stoll on Instagram, and Erin's been a client for a very long time, she will be on the podcast, we're planning a two-part episode with her.

People have quoted that to me back so many times. I've actually not even rewatched it. I don't usually listen to or rewatch my own content most of the time and I feel like I know that live at the back of my hand because so many people said it was the sales trigger for them.

I did it because I knew it would be, not because I was being salesy, but because I want you to see what's possible for you. I want you to hear it from Erin. Erin and I didn't prepare. I don't prepare my podcast guest beforehand. I tell them, “I'm going to ask you one question and we're going to see where the conversation goes.”

The first question is “Tell me who you are and where you were in your styling business when we started working together.” That's it. I don't need to prepare people because I know that if they speak, even if they say the hard parts, which there are hard parts of being successful, you're going to believe it because it's completely sinking in with the things I'm saying on my episodes that are solo because I am all in.

I will make mistakes and then I will make it better for my clients over and over if I need to. That's what's going to be true of you too when you step into this identity. Go out there, get yourself some social proof, don't make decisions on your client's behalf, watch your entire business change. I'm proud of you, keep going.

Thank you so much for hanging out with me. It turns out that social proof is actually pretty important. So if you could help me out, I'd so appreciate it. If you just had a quick free moment and could leave me a rating or review on the podcast app, that would be killer. And even better, if you wanted to share this episode on Instagram and tag me, that would totally make my day and it would bring so much more awareness to the podcast and would help other stylists just like you who are looking to build lucrative styling business because the better each of us does, the better all of us do. Thanks for hanging out with me and I'll chat with you next time.