PODCAST SHOWNOTES

Nicole Otchy: Welcome to the Six Figure Personal Stylist Podcast, the ultimate no-BS business podcast for ambitious personal stylists ready to build a six-figure and beyond personal styling business.

You won't hear the typical snoozefest business advice that most personal stylists get told all of the time. Nope. Instead, I'll be sharing business-building strategies that will help you create a killer personal brand, a cult following of loyal personal styling clients, and make a ton of cash while creating lasting style transformations for your clients.

I'm Nicole Otchy, your host and a former personal stylist of 14 years who built a lucrative styling business in three major cities, but only after spending years trying to crack the six-figure styling business code without burning out. And now I'm here to tell you how to do exactly the same. Let's get into it.

Welcome back to the show. Today, I am so excited and delighted to introduce you to Michelle Loo. Michelle spent 16 years in her corporate tech HR job in the Bay Area before leaving to start her own personal styling business.

What I really love about this conversation, and I think you will too, is how relatable Michelle's experience was once she had her business up and going. She had gotten styling experience under her belt. She knew her ideal client. She had paying clients that were strangers, but she hadn't gotten the sales and marketing skills to actually turn this into what she wanted it to be, a replacement for her corporate income.

In this conversation, Michelle walks through how she niched into women in tech and other male-dominated industries, how she raised her pricing quickly without spiraling, and what actually went through her head the first time she had to say her prices out loud on a sales call. We also talk about perfectionism, the identity shift that made selling feel way less personal, and the ritual she does before every discovery call to get her head right.

If you're stuck on pricing, still trying to figure out your niche, or feeling like your business is asking you to be braver than you're currently feeling, this conversation is going to really help. Let's get into it.

Welcome to the show, Michelle.

Michelle Loo: Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Nicole Otchy: So I want to start us off talking about this moment where you sent me a Voxer. I think it was like 10-ish, 12-ish days after we ended the program. You shared with me that you had just closed a sales call. Take me back to those moments in November, right when the program ended and you were starting to see a change.

Michelle Loo: So after the program ended, there was a lot to take in and a lot to implement. I have been implementing on the way, especially with my messaging on Instagram.

So when I got the discovery call booked and started talking to the prospect, I realized, wow, this person's actually in my niche, right? Because we did all that work in module one to really define my niche so that I could refine my marketing and messaging to them.

So I was excited, one, that they were in my niche. Two, I was nervous because I knew I needed to increase my prices. You had always said that. Well, I finally built the courage up to do that.

On the call, the client or the prospect didn't—it was like no big deal, right? It was a bigger deal to me to go into that call thinking that I need to increase my price. But when I actually said it, it landed and the prospect didn't bat an eye.

So that was very reassuring. From then I decided, okay, okay, like I can do this, right? Like I can sell at this price. It's really just me overcoming myself and believing it and having your voice in my head saying I need to do this.

Nicole Otchy: To be clear, just so people get a sense of what we're talking about, we at least doubled your prices.

Michelle Loo: Correct. Yes.

Nicole Otchy: So this wasn't like a $100 increase. This was significant.

Michelle Loo: Yes.

Nicole Otchy: You had heard in the past, "Your prices are too expensive." So you get that first sales call. They're like, "Yes, it's a go." You're like, "Oh my gosh." You have another one on the 24th of November, because I get another text.

Michelle Loo: Yes.

Nicole Otchy: You're like, "What the heck?"

Michelle Loo: Yes, yes. So that was really exciting, too, because I think with every stylist, you have this constant imposter syndrome, right? Every call you go into, there's this nervous feeling.

And so I think going to that call, I was like, okay, I listened to the sales module. So before every discovery call, I actually re-listen to that module. I'm putting my makeup on. It's my ritual.

So while I'm putting my makeup on, I have the audio on. I think it's like a 20 to 24-minute audio clip that you've allowed us to download. I re-listen to that while I'm doing my makeup and prepping in my head for the call. That's how I prep now.

I always listen to that. So it's really valuable to have that available. Like, thanks for letting us download it.

Every time I go into a call, that's my mindset. I take it very seriously. I really practice in my head the formula that you've taught. So I think each time it gets easier, right? It takes a lot of time. I think that's been a learning.

Because going into the program, I knew something was missing. I didn't have the skills to sell or to market. That completely was a different skill set that I recognized over time that I didn't have.

So once I started to look at your modules and learn, I was like, "Okay, this is actually real. I need to take the time to learn those skills," because they're actually separate from styling, right? And nobody teaches you those skills.

So having those tangible lessons, those modules to go off of, the formulas that you've provided have really helped with that. Like I said, it just takes time to build and practice.

Nicole Otchy: Because what you were really doing there, and I'm so glad you brought that up. Yes, I provide the tools in as many ways as I can because I believe listening, reading, watching—everyone has a different learning style.

But also, it takes time to create a different identity. When you're coming from a certain place, which we're going to talk about, that most stylists—and I was there for years—are in when they take this program, you're getting a series of skills, yes, and a series of steps, but you're also getting a new identity. Those steps are what build it.

It's not the mindset first, which a lot of people think. It's the steps that then show you these wins like you did. Because what I was talking with Michelle about, I just want to share this briefly, is we had our last group call before she shared these wins. It was such a poignant moment because you said, "I just have to be honest with you."

You looked so dejected. You said, "I wasn't selling these offers. People were telling me I was too expensive at my old price. I don't know how—I want to believe you. I want to trust you, but I don't know how I'm going to do this."

There was a longer coaching moment there. Then literally like two weeks later you were—and it was directly a result of you saying, "I don't believe you, but I'm going to keep listening as I put my makeup on." I love that so much.

Michelle Loo: Yeah. Yeah. It's been so helpful to have that. You mentioned mindset, but it is also mindset. It's totally getting into that mode, that sales mode, and constantly having to fight that feeling, right? That nervous feeling, that imposter syndrome. It's a constant mindset shift.

So I think all the tools you've given us and all of the Voxer coaching has helped me overcome some of that fear that I've had, especially because I don't come from a stylist background.

I left my career—16 years in corporate tech HR. This field is completely new to me. So not only is it the styling piece, but it's also the sales and marketing piece. I'm new to running a business. So having your coaching and having the tools available and the tangible tools is what's really helpful.

Nicole Otchy: So let's actually talk about your background, because you came to styling. When we spoke, you had had your business for how long?

Michelle Loo: I had launched my business about six months ago, but I had been on this journey to start a business for about a year.

Nicole Otchy: Okay. Yeah. You had worked with your ideal clients—what we thought were your ideal clients.

When you came to the program, because I think a lot of people come to the program looking for one thing and then after are like, "Oh, actually, I needed that and I needed XYZ." What did you think you were needing at that point?

Michelle Loo: At that point, I had launched, right? I had been in business for about six months, and I was realizing how frustrated I was getting with my marketing and my sales.

Every day I'd be like, "What should I post on Instagram? What is worth my time posting?" I don't want to look like an influencer. I am not an influencer, and I actually will post about that. I want to look like an expert in my field and I want to actually help other women.

Like, "How do I do that? And how do I do that in a way that attracts them to book me?" That constant energy spent on figuring that out every day was so, so frustrating.

You know, I had previously worked with another mentor who was really great. But I think what I recognized was that was really great for starting a business, but now I needed to really figure out the sales and marketing piece so that I could sustain and grow my business.

Nicole Otchy: Right. Sales and marketing, for sure. I think it's so normal to think, "Oh, I have these styling skills," because you came with a lot of training in the field. You definitely are a high fact finder. You're one of my people. You want to learn. You want to understand. You have perfectionism running through your veins. I'm going to talk about that.

You were, in many ways, actually, everybody in that program was very much an exact picture of the client that I'm talking to on this podcast.

It was interesting because you came with a lot of prior training and you launched your business pretty quickly. It wasn't like you were sitting on it. You trained, you launched, you did the thing for a year.

So you were more advanced than some people in that sense. You thought you just needed some marketing and sales, but we also learned there were maybe some other pieces like pricing and services. What would you say your biggest confusions were there?

Michelle Loo: I think when I launched my business, I priced at a price that I felt was comfortable. I priced because I wanted to attract clients. I thought that pricing at the price that I was at would do that.

Prior to that, setting that price, I had worked with pro bono clients during my certificate of personal styling. I had to work with four clients, and I reached out to survey them to ask how much they would pay for that service. I got such a wide range of answers.

Okay, I'm going to price at the middle, right? The average of the answers. That was fairly low. Based on the feedback that you gave me. I think having your input on that and also having some experience going through the program, I recognized how much work was actually going into every package and every client.

I started to recalculate. It's not only the time that I'm in front of the client. I'm spending hours prepping, researching, follow-ups. I had all of that in place already, but I was taking so much time doing it.

I was like, "This is not a living wage to actually spend this much time on a client and charge this little." You're right. I actually need to increase the price by a lot.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. What's interesting about you that was very unique is that your brain is very good with systems. You already had systematized your business. You're very organized.

You really had a very intuitive sense of what touch points the clients would need in order to feel taken care of and feel like they were on the same page with you. That was something you actually didn't need, which was rare. I don't see a lot of that.

It was interesting because you said my input on your pricing. The input on pricing I give most people is, what do you want to earn? And are your cover prices going to get you there? When we did the math, you're right. It was, and almost always is, less than minimum wage.

Michelle Loo: Right. It is. Something that you also reminded me was because of my niche and because of my market, I mean, I live in a tier one market. It's one of the highest cost of living markets in the U.S. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.

That was also something to recognize. What I was charging and what I could be charging there was such a difference. What I could be charging would actually land with my niche and in my market.

Nicole Otchy: I doubled the prices you had before. It's such a different way of looking at our businesses, to get out of our own viewpoint and look at it from the standpoint of the people we're serving and the mindset they're in.

And here's the key part. What you did was so smart by doing research and asking people, especially at that free point. But when it comes to pricing, and we definitely talked about this, but I wanted to say it because I'm sure people were like, "Well, that's genius. I wouldn't have even thought to talk to my ideal client before I asked them." Why is that bad?

It wasn't that it was bad. It's that when people aren't actually seeking the service, they can be in the same demographic. They can be the right job. But if they're not in the psychological headspace of this being a want and a need, then they're going to price it differently than if it's something they want. You're going to pay more for water in a desert than you are at the ocean.

Michelle Loo: Exactly. I remember you told me that and I said, "Oh, that was like a light bulb moment." You're right. They didn't have to pay for it to begin with. So the value there is...

Nicole Otchy: It's a guess. Right?

Michelle Loo: Right. A guess. That's exactly what it was.

Nicole Otchy: No one means any harm by it. But that's what I see a lot of times, thinking like, "Oh, well, the market won't bear it." It's like, if you were talking to the segment of the market that could bear it, you wouldn't have any sales call problems. So there you have it.

So we changed a lot of your marketing. And you were already pretty cautious to not be doing some of the basic stuff we talk about on here.

Tell me a little bit about how you changed your marketing and how your relationship with marketing has changed, even since the program, because I've noticed you're really going for it.

Michelle Loo: Thank you. I've really taken to heart your advice on speaking to your ideal client and getting in their heads. Like, what are they thinking? What are those micro moments? And I've niched down to really work with women in tech.

So if you look at my most recent post, I've posted some content that relates to their moments, like being on Zoom, looking like the authority in the room. So I have really tried to inject more of that messaging in my content.

But at the same time, I'm also human, right? So I'm not 100% doing every single post in that way. But I think just slowly injecting it has helped with my marketing.

I look at the framework that you've given me and I look at how often I am injecting those moments that really talk to my ideal client and making a very concerted effort to be consistent with that.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. The consistency pays off, even though it doesn't feel like it in the moment when you're going through all that work.

Michelle Loo: I know. I mean, it's so hard. I have to say.

Nicole Otchy: Be honest.

Michelle Loo: But it's still very hard for me. I'm not a natural marketer. I don't have this background.

Nicole Otchy: Who is a natural marketer?

Michelle Loo: I guess I'm not someone with a marketing background, is what I'm saying. I do have friends in marketing, and when I talk to them in conversations, they're like, "Oh, you should do that." It just comes out naturally, but that's because it's their background.

So it is still challenging, but it's super helpful to have the framework and the tools to get to where I want to be. I think it's just a matter of being consistent and continuously doing it.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah, like all things. But I think, too, what you said about not being a marketer. What's interesting is that there's actually been a lot of former marketers in my programs.

Michelle Loo: Really?

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. There were a couple in the one that were executive marketers. They were in creative agencies and stuff like that or in marketing agencies.

What they all say is the same thing. I just had a sales call with someone in that position. They're like, "I was in marketing. I do marketing on the side."

The answer is it's absolutely not the same to market yourself as it is to market... I don't know. It's almost like they did the Game of Thrones campaign. They worked with all these fancy brands.

It's not the same to sell a Coke as it is to sell somebody trusting you when you see them in their underwear.

There are very little instances where people are going to tell you how to be a personal brand, how to talk to people, how to do all those things. So a lot of marketing just doesn't...

Michelle Loo: Exactly. I think that's why I chose to work with you because you had that experience in the field. You had the 14 years.

So you have the expertise and you knew those micro moments, right? You're familiar with that dynamic between a stylist and a client and those feelings that a client has. That is such a unique perspective that I think is so relevant to stylists and what I needed.

Nicole Otchy: I want you to share a little bit about, because you did come from a corporate background. I also think that a lot of people with corporate backgrounds, marketing or not, have a lot of amazing skills and ways of looking at their business that a lot of people, myself included, did not have.

So what do you think some of the strengths were that you... We've talked a lot about the things that weren't there, but I want to make sure we're making space for the things that were there because I saw a lot of them.

What do you think that all that time in the corporate world really showed you about how to run a business?

Michelle Loo: Well, my background is in human resources. There was a lot of work that was done as it related to the employee experience. So every program we put out, every program we messaged, every launch we did for a new mental health benefit, for example, messaging to the employee was a big component of that.

Being clear about it, being detailed about it, the what to expect. And the FAQs. All of those details were always written with every program we launched. So I have that mindset going into creating my business. So I had the welcome guide already. I had the what to expect. I have the FAQs.

All of that was built in because I was familiar with what it's like to launch something and be employee-centric. Instead, in this case it was client-centric. Like, what information do they need? What are they going to ask? All of those details were embedded into my process already.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah, it was really impressive to see. One of the things that I remember, I just remembered this as you're speaking. We had a conversation because I remember where it was when I was coaching you. You were talking about thinking that you knew your niche and you had some of it.

And I was like, yeah, you do. If someone thinks they know their niche, I'm not going to fight them on their niche. But what did we learn about in that conversation? What was the thing that we uncovered that was the blind spot about it?

Michelle Loo: I remember because I think it was after module one where you had us review our past clients. I realized that there was such a wide range of clients and where they were in terms of their budgets, right? Which is understandable.

But I realized that I think I can make the most impact when the budgets were a little higher. We started to talk through that. Well, whose budgets are higher and what are your expertise?

At the end, we discovered, okay, I come from a tech background. I know the tech space. I was in it for 16 years. You know what it's like to be in that room where you're presenting, but you don't want to look like you're a banker in a black suit, right?

You want to look professional, but you want to look approachable at the same time. It's a very unique situation to be in. I was in those situations. I made it to director level, and I know what it was like to be in those rooms.

So you helped me recognize that as my edge, what sets me apart. We further defined my niche based on that. That was the light bulb moment because I realized I already had that knowledge.

Prior to that, I was like, "What am I going to do?" And it's funny because sometimes things are so obvious. They're right there. You just don't realize it. So you helped me realize, okay, that really is your niche. So we shifted and I further niched down to women in tech. Moms too. Moms in tech too.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah, because we started with moms.

Michelle Loo: Right. It was moms.

Nicole Otchy: It was like working moms usually, or just moms. Then it was like, well, maybe it's working moms. Then it was women working in tech. I think also relevant male-dominated industries, because that was a big theme that we talked about in your marketing.

Michelle Loo: Yeah, it's because I had to work with women that were not in tech, but they were in male-dominated industries. One woman was in wealth management. Those firms are dominated by men. One woman was a pediatrician, one of the lone female pediatricians on her floor. So that was also a recurring theme, which you see also in tech, especially as you get higher up in tech. It's very male-dominated.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. Did that level of specificity make you nervous, like you were leaving people out?

Michelle Loo: Yes.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. Say more about that. Everyone's scared.

Michelle Loo: Absolutely. I didn't want to leave out women that were in other professions, but I think I realized that even though I niche down doesn't mean that I can't work with other women, right? I think it's just the messaging that I'm focusing on. But if I attract other women, it's fine. Like, I will work with them too.

Nicole Otchy: Right. I think people think niching is like this wall. It's like, no, it's a gate. You're welcome to open it. You're welcome to open it. You just want to keep out people you don't want to work with. Also, it keeps our brain able to focus on what we're going to actually say that's going to make a difference, because it's a specificity that attracts people in your niche or not. It's just that if I can talk to anyone about anything at any time, what do I pick? And then we don't do anything.

Michelle Loo: Right. That's overwhelming in itself.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. Also, I find that if you actually are making money, you can help a lot more people in a lot of ways. That matters. So tell me a little bit about what you think your biggest wins are when you look back. They can be [inaudible], but they don't have to be.

Michelle Loo: One of my biggest wins is I went to an event in November. This was in the middle of your program. It had been so long since I'd been to an event in person. I used to do this all the time. I used to do networking, go to conferences. It had been a year since I did that.

So I finally built up the courage to go to an event. My friend was the planner of the event. During the Q&A, I got up and I told my story because I was very relevant to the panel discussion that was at hand. Just me forcing myself, just me having the confidence and the mindset to tell my story in front of 300 people was such a turning point because I got so much out of that. Like I made so many good connections.

I actually met a person that ended up booking me for my package. So I think it was that mindset shift. Like, okay, like I need to be the expert. I am the expert, right? I need to market myself. I need to put myself out there more because that is just something that I need to do to grow my business.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah. You make a good point about being the expert. I think when we're worried about leaving people out, the person we leave out the most is usually us, because it was in the work of refining your specific niche that you could see your own expertise. Because in the conversations we're having, I can say, well, what are these types of experiences that they have? What are the thoughts they have?

And that's what a lot of the work in the program you're in, Accelerator, is. Because it's so small, I can say to people like, hey, actually, what about this life experience that you're ignoring and not thinking enough about? What if it was framed this way? And sometimes it's a yes, sometimes it's a no from the client. Like maybe it hits or it doesn't. But I think we often forget that the way that we make the biggest impact is the things that feel good to us. Like, it doesn't have to feel hard all the time. It'll feel hard.

Michelle Loo: We make it harder than it actually should be. It's all in our head sometimes.

Nicole Otchy: Especially if you lean towards perfectionism, which I do and I know you do. We had a lot of conversations about that. I think some of it has been revealed in this conversation, but what do you think your biggest fears were about your business, having the perfectionist?

Michelle Loo: Failure. Failing in front of everybody.

Nicole Otchy: Yes.

Michelle Loo: It's so public-facing, and that's not something I'm used to. I'm naturally an introvert. I don't like talking about myself. I don't. It's such an uncomfortable feeling. So I think that and the perfectionism made it very hard to do anything, right? Like I was stopping myself from even doing things because I was waiting until they were perfect. You can't do that as a business owner. It's all about failing and learning, failing and learning.

I know that because I've been in startups. That's how startups function. You launch something, the minimum viable product they call MVP, you launch it and you learn and you iterate, and you continue to do that until you arrive at the product that is what you intended it to be. So I had to really remind myself of that, that I can't be perfect all the time. I just had to get comfortable with the uncomfortable and just do it. Just do it and see what happens.

Nicole Otchy: In all honesty, do you think that the wins that you've had on the other side of that discomfort are worth it? Truly. Because the answer sometimes is no. But I want to have an honest conversation because I think what we're—

Michelle Loo: Yeah, the wins are worth it. So I have to say, I've had wins, but I've also had losses. So I did have a discovery call three weeks ago with my new price and followed up twice with the prospect and have not gotten an answer. So there are still, I don't want to say losses because that's not really a loss, but you know, there are still moments where it's hard and I'm not always winning. But I'm each time making a little more progress as I continue.

Nicole Otchy: It really does help to have the wins to offset that. You doubled your price. You're booking your highest package, which you literally said verbatim, "I will not. I don't see how this is ever going to sell." It's like, yeah, somebody may have ghosted you for the price. They may. Or they're just busy. We don't know.

Michelle Loo: But the good thing is they were in my exact niche. So that is a win in itself, right? Because I realized when I was talking to her, "Oh my gosh, she was a mom in tech, mom in AI." Like, this is who I'm trying to target, and it's working, right? That part is working. So that was a win. Maybe she did get busy. I need to recognize that not everybody's going to book. But I still learned a lot from that conversation.

Nicole Otchy: God, you've grown so much. Just for clarity here, Michelle did the program, ended it in like mid-November of 2025. We are sitting down on January 28th of 2026. Everybody has a different rate of transformation and a different rate of change. This is also true with our styling clients.

This is totally normal because everybody comes into programs as they come into styling with different mindsets, different head spaces, different skill sets. So it's hard to say like, oh, everybody's going to be doubling and tripling their prices and be having this experience. I can say, though, that the things that Michelle talked about are things that are very clear indicators of it, like willingness to try even when it's uncomfortable, listening to things when she's doing her makeup, like integrating this new identity into who she is.

Our clients are nervous to put on outfits that feel like they're getting a lot of attention. They love them in the dressing room. People love getting a marketing plan in a course, but then when no one's responding and they are trying out messaging and they've done it for two weeks, it gets a little uncomfy. But you keep going. And it's really been amazing to work with you and watch you just go at it, even and especially when it was uncomfortable, and see you grow this way. And to even be able to see the wins in things that feel like they didn't go your way is mind-blowing.

Michelle Loo: Thank you. Thank you. It has been. I mean, now that you put it that way, I didn't realize it was a change in identity until you put it that way. But it is. It is. I just haven't had time to reflect on the last two months.

Nicole Otchy: Well, yeah, because it was also the holidays and everything. But yeah, it is. And I'll tell you why. Because we think identity change is something that we're going to wake up one day and be like, "I feel like a different person." But think about any other experience you've had, like motherhood or being a wife, or these moments that actually have markers.

It's why I think of motherhood or marriage or something like that, because we have these public events where we're like, okay, I had a baby. Okay, I had a wedding. And we don't necessarily feel different the next day or even a year later or whatever. But when you look back over time, like my daughter, she's four. When I look back to the first two years, I'm like, wow, we've come a long way. But it feels like nothing.

Michelle Loo: Right. When you're in it. It doesn't feel like it. Kids are an example. Yeah, that's a perfect example. My kids were five and three, and I'm like, what happened? What? What are you saying?

Nicole Otchy: I can barely remember bringing her home from the hospital, which is nature's way of keeping us procreating. But when I look at an example like yours, and only being a few months later than that, I think a lot of what I try to do in that program, why I emphasize wins and start all of our calls with wins, is because it's so out of the nature of most people, but specifically the women I work with that are perfectionistic, that do care about people deeply, that do want to stand for transformation, that want that deeper relationship with people.

They are addicted, without even meaning it, to fixing things, noticing what's not going right. They're hypervigilant. So when you learn to notice the bad and the good, because all of life is 50-50, you get to have moments where you get a glimpse into it, which doesn't mean the bad things don't happen, but it does mean that you see life is 50-50, which gives you a little more staying power to keep going, I think.

Michelle Loo: It does. It does. And every moment that you think is a setback, it's actually learning, right?

Nicole Otchy: I know it's true.

Michelle Loo: Back to that, I just referenced that woman who's—I don't like the word "ghosted," but maybe she got, right? But I'm like, "Okay, what could I have done better on that sales call?" And I knew, thinking back, I knew what could have gone better. I knew it.

And so the next sales call I'm like, "Okay, I'm actually going to ask the follow-ups, ask all those follow-up questions that you said that you gave us," because I don't think I dived deep enough in that other call. But it was just a learning. And so every setback is just a learning. Like, "Okay, what can you take from that and how can you get better at it the next time?"

Nicole Otchy: And she still may come back, because I can tell you from experience I've had sales calls and thought, "That ain't going to work." They didn't come back right away for, say, one round of the program. And I have people every single time I enroll a new program who come back to me later and say, "Hey, sorry, I fell off the face of the planet. I was getting divorced. My kid got sick. I didn't have the money, and I didn't want to tell you." The more you just keep yourself open to that, I swear the more people that experience that. That's why I believe in the sales process I believe in, because, yeah, you follow up, but you don't make it mean anything because you just never know.

I mean, I can think of my own times when I've fallen off by accident, and I try to be very vigilant. And to me, that makes me want to throw up when I think about not responding. Life happened. Then I'm like, "Oh, okay, now I remember people are people," you know?

Michelle Loo: That was so helpful for you to teach us, right? Because every little thing like that can be so emotional, right? It's like you're rejected and it's tiring and you get in the spiral. Like, "What did I do?" But I think your perspective was helpful. Like, you're right. You're right about everything. Like, it could be anything. It's not always the stylist.

Nicole Otchy: Right, 100%. You could make a mistake and do a bad job on a sales call. They could have been watching your content for years. You couldn't have messed it up even if you tried because they were already bought in. That's, again, not to bring this always back to the business, but I do think when you see that things are connected, you can just relax because you're not just trying to get the sale on a sales call. You've already built up a lot of goodwill. You've already showed people, "This is who I am. This is what I stand for. This is my goal with our work together."

They come a lot warmer so that you don't, I have found, have to be as perfect and obsessed with, "Oh my God, I didn't ask this question." Like, yeah, you can always get better. I think that's your flavor. You are very much a get-better, learn, iterate person. But you can also not get better, or have a good baseline and make a mistake, and someone can absolutely come back. It's not as—I wish it was black and white, but it's not.

Michelle Loo: But I like that you always said it's a relationship and it's a game. And so it's longer-term than just that call. It starts with them finding you, looking at your content, thinking about it, and this call is just one moment in a relationship. That was a really helpful shift in my perspective because I realized that it's not all about that sales call. It's also everything outside that sales call that I need to be focused on. I need to just recognize. It's not all about that one thing. It's that it's a longer relationship that I'm trying to build.

Nicole Otchy: Yeah, which as a perfectionist is really good news because we look at our whole life like, "I better hit this target or else everything." It's like, well, no wonder we're all tired out here, even if we're not booked out. You know, who wouldn't be?

But I'm so excited for you and all of the growth you've had and all the growth in the hard moments. I like to end my client interviews asking this question. What are you most excited about in your business going forward?

Michelle Loo: I'm most excited about putting myself out there more this year. We're at the beginning of 2026. Really going for it regardless of how I feel. There's logic. I think very logically, like, "What if it doesn't? I need to do it this way. What if it doesn't?" Like, just going for it and seeing what happens.

So an example is I met a woman at that event in November. She has a similar path as me, former tech, started her own business in business coaching. We met up a few times. The last time we met up, I pitched a collaboration with her and said, "Hey, I have this idea." Like, I never would have thought to do that if I didn't have that mindset of just going forward, combined with your module on marketing collaborations. I think there was that in my head too. So I think I'm just excited to start to try these out and be brave enough to do that this year.

Nicole Otchy: I'm so excited. I'm so excited for you to trust yourself more.

Michelle Loo: Yes, trusting myself. That's the way to put it.

Nicole Otchy: You have killer instincts, as do almost all of my clients. I'm so excited for you to see that about yourself. Thank you so much for sharing so generously with us today, Michelle.

Michelle Loo: Yes, and thank you so much for everything that you've taught. I think you are really helping personal stylists. I know that's your mission. Every podcast I listen to, that's your mission. I think you truly are. You truly are. So thank you for the work that you're doing.

Nicole Otchy: Thank you so much. I'm really getting emotional.

If you found yourself nodding along and feeling like Michelle was in your head and having the same experiences you are in your personal styling business while listening to this conversation, then you are the perfect fit for my Income Accelerator Program. The next round starts March 23rd, and this is a small group program, so it's curated by application only. Head to the show notes to apply, and I'll be in touch with next steps to book a chat. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you next time.

Thank you so much for hanging out with me. It turns out that social proof is actually pretty important. So if you could help me out, I'd so appreciate it. If you just had a quick free moment and could leave me a rating or review on the podcast app, that would be killer. And even better, if you wanted to share this episode on Instagram and tag me, that would totally make my day and it would bring so much more awareness to the podcast and would help other stylists just like you who are looking to build lucrative styling business because the better each of us does, the better all of us do. Thanks for hanging out with me and I'll chat with you next time.